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That last thing, he hadn't expected. It's surprising enough to make him look to Tachibana again, and to catch him toying with his pendant. There are so many things that he wasn't party to, that he missed, and he finds himself wanting to know more about them because... is it entirely because they have to do with Tachibana? It can't be all that...

"I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that most beings don't do well in the long term, when they've suffered a significant loss." Obvious a thing as it may seem to anyone else, it feels like an actual, honest realization to Isaka. He's not sure how well he's doing, and Tachibana.... well.

Tachibana nodded. "Unless you find something else to fill that void with..." he trailed off, pressing his lips together. "I was lucky, in a way. After I sealed you... I tried giving up being a Rider. Gave Karasuma back the Belt and thought I could just... walk away. But instead, there was more I needed to do. Someone I needed to save from falling into the same fate."

A small, soft smile finally touched his lips. "The one thing I succeeded at, really."

Filling the void somehow is important, Isaka cannot dispute that. And so he nods, and tries not to reflect too hard on his own void that he is still struggling with. He finds himself a seat on a nearby crate, and listens.

"...who was that? Tell me more." There is something more to Tachibana than anxiety and anger, isn't there? He wants to hear this. He wants to know.

"Mutsuki," Tachibana explained, shifting to lean against the edge of the workbench nearest to him. "He was the one who found the Leangle Belt-- or rather, the Belt found him. He thought it could give him what he needed to face his fears and be more the person he wanted to be. Instead, the Undead powering it took him over. Turned him into someone he wasn't."

He pressed his lips together a moment, looking to the side. The similarities in his and Mutsuki's situations...

"In the end, it took three of us to reach him, to help him break the Spider Undead's control over him. I think because of Shima-san and Tiger Undead's sacrifice... it was why he wanted to trust in the Undead. He believed that they could be reasoned with, that we didn't all need to fight each other. Even when that trust was betrayed by Giraffa Undead... he still stubbornly insisted that Hajime wouldn't end the world."

Even going as far as to fight him over it... Neither of them could have known that the Sealing Stone wouldn't give Hajime that choice.

"Found him?" Isaka frowns deeply, taking in the news of what happened with the Leangle buckle. "Spider still had influence, even when sealed?" That's news to him. That's different. He hadn't had the chance to put the card to the test before he'd gone and gotten himself flaming jump-kicked into an oblivion of his own. All the more interested now, he leans in slightly.

"...Shima-san. Tarantula Undead?" His frown grows less concerned, more thoughtful, eyebrows knitting. "So he and Tiger.... found something worthwhile to do, is that it? What was their sacrifice? They were sealed, and...?" There's some connecting ideas here that he hasn't fully reasoned out for himself. "If you want to get an incorrect impression of how Undead are, talking with Tarantula will do that...."

A small amused snort escaped. "Shima-san was unique, I know," he assured. "but Hajime and Tiger are different. Maybe because they lived amongst humans long enough. Or were curious enough about them to learn..."

He trailed off a moment before shaking his head. "Shima-san thought that allowing himself to be sealed... he could oppose the Spider Undead's will more directly. Tiger offered to be sealed, to aid in that effort. When Mutsuki used both of their cards to try and use King Form, both of them lending him not only their power, but their will allowed him to fight against Spider Undead, and seal him properly in the way that I failed to."

"Definitely unique." And yet, having been reminded of him, he suddenly wishes he could talk with him again. What would Tarantula Undead think about a place like this, and the people in it? Ah, but that's a useless thought, isn't it...

"They spent enough time in a world not meant for Undead for that world to affect them." Perhaps he doesn't need to have that talk. Perhaps he's figured out some of this for himself. "...so what made this Mutsuki worth doing all this for?"

"He was someone who needed help." It was such a simple way to put it, but it was the heart of it all.

Tachibana's certainty leaves Isaka unmoved. His expression does not change. He blinks behind those shades. "There are lots of people that 'need help'. Why him?"

Tachibana glanced over, blinking twice. "Mutsuki was already fixated on sealing Shima-san," he pointed out. "And Shima-san was convinced that it was the only way to get through to him. As for Tiger..."

He hesitated a moment, unable to help the flashbacks of that one moment.

"...She had come to know him. And knew that the Fight was unwinnable. I think... rather than continuing to live a farce of a life, she wanted to help Mutsuki to fight in a way that mattered."

That does, and doesn't answer his question. His brow knits and he frowns, leaning in closer, as though trying to come closer to the thing he truly wants to know. "She came to know him. Fine. What did she come to know?" Tarantula's softness here makes sense. Tiger's.... that's a more complicated thing, he's sure.

Tachibana blinked a few times, eyebrow raising. "Isaka, the hell are you trying to figure out? I don't know what she was thinking, only what she said. Saving Mutsuki was more important than trying to figure out how they knew each other."

"Why Mutsuki? Why that one person? If I can't understand why Spider latched on to him, then why did you and the others latch onto him?!" His hands grip at the edge of the crate he's sitting on, making it give an audible creak.

Tachibana blinked. "...Spider latched on to him because he was compatible, but afraid," he pointed out. "It was able to use Mutsuki's insecurities and fears to its advantage, keeping him in its sway long enough to take full control of him."

That Isaka didn't understand that part... made Tachibana wonder how aware of the parallels between his and Mutsuki's situations Isaka actually had realized.

He shifted, looking at Isaka directly, pressing his lips together a long moment.

"... You're asking why one person feels a connection to another," he realized. "Not just why we all wanted to help Mutsuki."

Isaka continues to look frustrated, continues to almost seethe with his lack of understanding, right up until Tachibana stumbles upon the actual point of confusion. And then he gives a sudden lean back, visibly shocked.

"That's..." That's not what he asked? Not exactly what he asked. But when he reflects upon it... yes. That is what has him so frustratingly confused. He is, at least, not quite as angry about it, now that Tachibana's gone and stabbed right to the heart of things. "...why did you want to help someone so fearful and insecure?"

To take advantage of someone like that, fine, he can understand it all too well. But to help...?

Tachibana blinked a few times. "...Because that's what I do," he pointed out, feeling that if he were talking to anyone else, he would be stating the obvious.

"Almost everything I've done with my life has been to help others. It was why I joined BOARD, why I became a Rider, why I reformed BOARD to be what it should have been from the start."

He paused, pressing his lips together a moment, knowing that the answer likely wasn't what Isaka needed, but not really having any better way to pu it.

"Asking me why I want to help others... is a bit like asking an Undead why they fight."

Isaka isn't entirely sure that that's what Tachibana does. He has mostly seen him at his worst, running away from everyone and struggling. He is frowning and furrowing his brow so hard now that it's plain even behind those shades of his.

"...but that's not an absolute human impulse. That's not comparable to an Undead's drive to fight at all." Because he has seen humans do terrible things, seen the selfish and callous thoughts they carry around in their heads. And here's Tachibana claiming... something he hasn't quite grasped.

"I can't speak for all of humanity," Tachibana pointed out. "But for me... and for others like me, Kenzaki, Mutsuki, Sayoko, Hirose, even Kotaro-- all of us, even when we feel we have nothing to give, still want to help. And I think most of humanity is the same. Most people... even if fear and other things get in the way, deep inside... most everyone wants to help others."

Even if there were people like Tennouji in the world... the amount of people like Kenzaki, like Dakki, like Shiro, like Lyall, like everyone else he had fought alongside, far outnumbered them. So no matter how many selfish and terrible people there were-- he would never give up believing in humanity.

It is hard to put together a rebuttal to something said so earnestly. Felt so earnestly, too. An absent skimming of the man's thoughts brings up faces that he doesn't know, but so many of them... had he truly had so many more positive experiences than negative ones?

He lets out a huff and looks away, turning it all over in his head. He may not fully understand, no, but he can draw some conclusions. "...and this is why you're so tolerant of me, isn't it."

Tachibana was quiet a moment, mulling it over. "...Partly, yeah," he finally acknowledged. It was... far more complicated than that, but at the root of it all... he wanted to see the good in everyone. Even someone like Isaka. Especially someone like Isaka.

There was also....

He pressed his lips together, memories of Takuya's life surfacing. Having lived the life of someone who had done countless horrible things in service to his family, only starting to become truly human from his desire to protect his son from the very family that he had lived his life for.

It wasn't the same as the Undead's existence. But the parallels between them were strong.

"...but you're still not interested in doing things with me?" After all, he showed up here to try and get a bit of Tachibana's attention. Hopefully to come play a game with him, but at this point, he's about ready to settle for anything.

Tachibana blinked a few times, pulled utterly out his flashbacks as he looked over at Isaka, one eyebrow raised.

"The hell have you asked to do other than get me to play that damned game with you a million times? he countered.

Other than the few times Isaka had come looking for a fight. Which he had always given him. But that was something different.

Once more, his face scrunches. "Is your only objection to playing that game that it's that game? What do you like to do, then, that's not... fighting, and working on your machines?"

He is trying to be different. Better? Different, certainly. He is trying his best to grow as a being, here. Perhaps he just hasn't known the right questions to ask.

...that was a bit of an unintentionally pointed question, really and Tachibana pressed his lips together. What did he like doing, other than being in his garage.

... reading. Research. Exploring. Riding... But all of those were solo activities.

He let out a long breath, shifting his arms as he pushed off from the wall to stand more upright.

"...mostly I just keep to myself," he admitted. "Spend time in the library or out riding towards the wastelands to see what there is out there."

"Ah." For all that Tachibana seems uncertain about what he has admitted, Isaka is quick to see an opportunity for himself. "Let me come with you, next time you ride out to the wastes. You could use the backup, couldn't you?"

It's very logical. Very reasonable. And a good way to pass the time with him, have him to himself for a bit...

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triggerhappytraitor - 2020-10-04 02:42 (UTC) - Expand